6GS or 95th?

[Bob]

Hi

I want to play a western campaign with the players being part of the cavalry, each commanding part of the force and cooperating (or not...) against npc or gm controlled opponents.
As i understand it 6GS has pretty much everything i want as far as setting but isnt really a unit based game.
95th on the other hand seems better suited to the play style im after but there is no setting information.

So.... which one would be best suited to my wants?
Or would it be easy to combine them?

I have played a previous version of 6GS and liked the different reaction tables for different forces and the professions campaigns but as i recall they were not realy suited for the number of troops we want to field.

Thanks for your input.
Bob

P.s. If i buy a rulebook does it include a pdf version or will i have to buy that extra? D.s.

[atomicfloozy]

Whenever you purchase a print copy of a book, you also get a PDF copy of the same book.

How large of a unit do you plan on using? If each player's character is a Rep 5 character, then each character can have a group of 5 including the character. In the old Colonial Adventures, a 10 member group was used to represent an entire company. So, a group of 5 figures could represent a good sized detachment.

The pros of 6GS are that it covers the period of 1876 to 1890 explicitly, but it can also be used to cover a period as early as 1870 with no changes to the rules. Depending on how detailed your campaign is, you will have to supply some of the background - for instance, the Comanche, Kiowa, & Cheyenne would engage in melee while mounted, whereas the Apache, Crow and many other tribes preferred to melee on foot. When not in pursuit, the Cavalry doctrine of the day would have Cavalry to dismount to provide the most effective fire.

A better choice of unit based rules for the period, would be Fortunes Won and Lost, a Two Hour Game sold by Rebel Minis on their site and Drive Thru RPG. It is a Colonail rule set which can cover the mid-1800s to just prior to WWI. The unit type for Tribal Nomads would easily translate to fit most Native American forces. The Campaign rules in that game allows player's forces to fluctuate in quality and numbers as the player progresses through the campaign.

The only problem with The 95th would be the amount of work needed to bring European troop types and weapons from the start of the 19th century to an American frontier toward the end of the 19th century.

As a game master with a generous budget, I would buy both 6GS and Fortunes Won & Lost - if I'm really on a budget and I have a decent source on background material for covering engagements between the Government and Native Americans, I'd choose Fortunes Won and Lost -- If I'm on a budget and want to just run a John Ford-type Hollywood campaign, I'd probably choose 6GS and wing the Cavalry & Indian details.

One other thing, you might want to consider. Once you have finished your campaign against the hostiles, if you want to do other games set in the Old West, then 6GS would be a better buy. On the other hand, if after finishing your campaign and you wish to do other military engagements in the same period such as the Spanish-American War, the Philippine-American War, Or various instances of gunboat diplomacy, then Fortunes Won and Lost might be a better fit.

All of this, of course is just my opinion and usually worth about 2 cents.

[Bob]

Ok....
Looking at Rebel Minis site was illuminating, and confusing.
I found another version of 6GS i have never seen before(or is it just a different cover?) and both Colonial Adventures: Fortunes won and lost and Fortunes Won and Lost, i guess the later is the one you recommend?

The idea was to be able to run anything between a small patrol (one CO and four men) to a troop (one CO, one NCO and 16 men per player with 3 players) at 1 to 1 scale and up to a regiment at something like 1 to 5 with ~12 minis per troop. 

The reason i was considering 95th was the description of that ruleset to be able to handle the scaling and provide a campaign where the officers can gain ranks if they do well, thereby creating rivalry between commanders on the same side.

Your thoughts about where to go after the west is also good, will have to think on that one.

So much to consider.....

Thanks
Bob

[atomicfloozy]

Colonial Adventures is a mass combat game covering the 19th and early 20th centuries. It is similar in scale to The Sword and the Flame, but has much smoother mechanics and more army lists. Fortunes Won and Loss is a smaller scale game more like a platoon or squad level game. It plays faster and has a character development mechanic using increasing/decreasing Rep and fame points. It has more RPG like elements.

The current Six Gun Sound, Devil's Elbow is the 4th iteration of the Old West rules. The first edition was primarily a set of gunfight rules, the second edition, Six Gun Sound, Blaze of Glory is the most detailed edition, but is a little slower and harder to play for some because of the amount of detail. Six Gun Sound, Devil's Elbow is a good balance allowing both table top and battle board types of play.

One of the things you need to consider is that if you are going to play with units of 10 to 20 government figures, your Native American units will usually be three times larger. The hostiles may have been backwards and I'll-equipped, but they weren't stupid enough to attack without the numbers needed to win.

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

Jul 26, 2019 22:58:47 GMT Bob said:

Ok....
Looking at Rebel Minis site was illuminating, and confusing.
I found another version of 6GS i have never seen before(or is it just a different cover?) and both Colonial Adventures: Fortunes won and lost and Fortunes Won and Lost, i guess the later is the one you recommend?

The idea was to be able to run anything between a small patrol (one CO and four men) to a troop (one CO, one NCO and 16 men per player with 3 players) at 1 to 1 scale and up to a regiment at something like 1 to 5 with ~12 minis per troop. 

The reason i was considering 95th was the description of that ruleset to be able to handle the scaling and provide a campaign where the officers can gain ranks if they do well, thereby creating rivalry between commanders on the same side.

Your thoughts about where to go after the west is also good, will have to think on that one.

So much to consider.....

Thanks
Bob

It's hard to find one set of rules that can do the 1 CO and four men, up to 18 figures. Although once you learn 6GS, have sixteen figures under your control isn't that hard to play. Are you talking table top (3 x3 or larger) or Battle Board?

[Bob]

Jul 27, 2019 3:02:11 GMT Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy said:

It's hard to find one set of rules that can do the 1 CO and four men, up to 18 figures. Although once you learn 6GS, have sixteen figures under your control isn't that hard to play. Are you talking table top (3 x3 or larger) or Battle Board?

I'm planning for table top and 15mm miniatures. Something like the 5 figs on a 2x2 and the larger fighs on larger tables. 
My idea was to start small, 1 leader and 4 soldiers per player, to learn the rules and to have the games grow as the characters gain ranks. 
At the top end (in 1 to 1 figure scale) it would be something like 50 cav against some 200-300 natives on as big a table as can be found (currently 6x4).
When the characters reach regimental command level with 3-4 players with 3-4 troops each obviously some adjustments in scale is necessary.....

Having only played 6GS Blaze of Glory (and that was some years ago) i have no idea how battle boards work, is it more like a board game approach? Anyway, miniatures and terrain on the table top is the main focus.

atomicfloozy:
When you say 6GS has been streamlined does that mean combat and gameplay or has things like the reactions been simplified? I quite liked the differences in the reaction tables between different characters.

Thanks,
Bob

[TXWargamer]

Jul 26, 2019 22:58:47 GMT Bob said:

Ok....
Looking at Rebel Minis site was illuminating, and confusing.
I found another version of 6GS i have never seen before(or is it just a different cover?) and both Colonial Adventures: Fortunes won and lost and Fortunes Won and Lost, i guess the later is the one you recommend?

The idea was to be able to run anything between a small patrol (one CO and four men) to a troop (one CO, one NCO and 16 men per player with 3 players) at 1 to 1 scale and up to a regiment at something like 1 to 5 with ~12 minis per troop. 

The reason i was considering 95th was the description of that ruleset to be able to handle the scaling and provide a campaign where the officers can gain ranks if they do well, thereby creating rivalry between commanders on the same side.

Your thoughts about where to go after the west is also good, will have to think on that one.

So much to consider.....

Thanks
Bob

Hi Bob, I am a big fan of 95th. 

[TXWargamer]

Jul 26, 2019 17:00:48 GMT Bob said:

Hi

I want to play a western campaign with the players being part of the cavalry, each commanding part of the force and cooperating (or not...) against npc or gm controlled opponents.
As i understand it 6GS has pretty much everything i want as far as setting but isnt really a unit based game.
95th on the other hand seems better suited to the play style im after but there is no setting information.

So.... which one would be best suited to my wants?
Or would it be easy to combine them?

I have played a previous version of 6GS and liked the different reaction tables for different forces and the professions campaigns but as i recall they were not realy suited for the number of troops we want to field.

Thanks for your input.
Bob

P.s. If i buy a rulebook does it include a pdf version or will i have to buy that extra? D.s.

If you buy from THW and get a printed set you also get the pdf free. 

[TXWargamer]

Jul 27, 2019 7:11:00 GMT Bob said:

Jul 27, 2019 3:02:11 GMT Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy said:

It's hard to find one set of rules that can do the 1 CO and four men, up to 18 figures. Although once you learn 6GS, have sixteen figures under your control isn't that hard to play. Are you talking table top (3 x3 or larger) or Battle Board?

I'm planning for table top and 15mm miniatures. Something like the 5 figs on a 2x2 and the larger fighs on larger tables. 
My idea was to start small, 1 leader and 4 soldiers per player, to learn the rules and to have the games grow as the characters gain ranks. 
At the top end (in 1 to 1 figure scale) it would be something like 50 cav against some 200-300 natives on as big a table as can be found (currently 6x4).
When the characters reach regimental command level with 3-4 players with 3-4 troops each obviously some adjustments in scale is necessary.....

Having only played 6GS Blaze of Glory (and that was some years ago) i have no idea how battle boards work, is it more like a board game approach? Anyway, miniatures and terrain on the table top is the main focus.

atomicfloozy :
When you say 6GS has been streamlined does that mean combat and gameplay or has things like the reactions been simplified? I quite liked the differences in the reaction tables between different characters.

Thanks,
Bob

Bob,

i still use terrain with battle boards but movement is limited. Think of using a battleboard as taking each pef interaction to it's most climatic point. I do often expand my battle board concept to a 2x2 to allow movement and fire. Instead of tracking my pef across the usual 3x3 or larger I’ll setup a 2x2 and setup just as the pef is exposed such as in FNG the US are setup on the trail just as the VC ambush is sprung. 

[atomicfloozy]

Yes, things have been streamlined, but in a good way in many instances to allow the player to have a better immersive experience.

Just a small example, Blaze of Glory has an exhaustive table on your horse getting shot. In real life, if a character is in a firefight, knowing where a horse got shot is not important if there are characters still shooting at you, so why take the game time to determine where the horse got shot? I realize there are players who live for that kind of detail and that is why Blaze of Glory is still sold. While I find I don't have the time to play Blaze of Glory, it is still a good tool box and source of inspiration.

[Bob]

Ok, i think i will follow your recommendation, Atomic. 6GS for setting and smaller actions and Fortunes won and lost for bigger engagements.

Thank you all for your insights.
Bob