5150 Platoon Leader - some rules queries

[ilprincipe]

All queries refer to the 2015 version of the rules.

Rules 4.5.1 SQUAD COHESION states that "All of the figures in the Squad must remain in base to base contact" but the rules describing the operation of the Reaction Tests, eg 6.2.4 INVOLUNTARY MOVEMENT, 6.5 STATUS AND ACTIONS, refer to the actions of individual figures, so it seems that involuntary actions may cause the squad to split up. Is that correct. If it is, what happens in respect of Squad Cohesion?

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

If they're forced to split, then they must actively attempt to reform by moving into base-to-base contact. Unless you choose to voluntarily split the Squad into two teams. Example - One team stays put out of sight and the other is sent out to trigger a PEF. Hope this helps.

[ilprincipe]

Hi Ed. Thanks for your prompt (as ever) reply. That's helpful to know. I presume that I'll have to treat "voluntarily split the squad" option as a house rule as I can't find anything in the rules themselves that permits the player to override the squad cohesion rule. Regards, Chris

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

Yeah, that's more in the Squad based rules where you're only running the Squad.

[ilprincipe]

Here goes.
In Sight tests are triggered by one or more figures coming into sight of one or more figures but in both cases the result of the test applies to the unit* as a whole (see 6.3.3 TAKING THE IN SIGHT TEST, penultimate bullet point). *Does this imply that if a platoon or company was moving as a single unit and triggered an In Sight test then the result would apply to the whole unit so that, for example, a whole company might Duck Back? No, just the squad as it is the smallest unit. They band together into platoons and companies so they can act at the same time under one leader.

Every figure in the triggering unit may, but need not, move an additional 2". Presumably, read in conjunction with 4.5.1 SQUAD COHESION, this means that either whole squads or leaders move or no figure moves? Whole squad has the option. Some may, some may not. One good tactic is the lead guy steps out of cover, trigger the In Sight, then the point man spends 2" and ducks back out of sight. Now you know what's out there. Kind of like real life.

In Sight test winners.

Assuming that the result of the In Sight test applies to the unit as a whole does this mean that figures in the unit that have no LOS to an enemy Duck Back, whereas those that do either Fire or Charge. If so, that will split the unit. It seems that 6.3.4 RESOLVING IN SIGHT ACTIONS implies that is what will happen. No Duck Back as nothing caused it to happen. Duck Back is a Reaction, moving into cover is an action.

Figures belonging to the winning group Fire, Charge or Duck Back as individuals, so multiple engagements are likely to occur. Fire or charge. 

In Sight test losers.

6.4 RECEIVED FIRE & MAN DOWN is clear that a single Reaction Test is taken for the whole unit, based on the worst result inflicted by the attackers, and the result applied to the whole unit, which then reacts as one. Correct. Due to a Reaction.

[ilprincipe]

Hi Ed, thanks again for answering so promptly. Your answers have prompted some further questions from me, so I'll post them in quoted text below. But please, it's Sunday, there's no urgency and getting a response from you. Any time will do. Or never of you're really busy.

Jul 2, 2023 12:45:21 GMT ilprincipe said:

Here goes.
In Sight tests are triggered by one or more figures coming into sight of one or more figures but in both cases the result of the test applies to the unit* as a whole (see 6.3.3 TAKING THE IN SIGHT TEST, penultimate bullet point). *Does this imply that if a platoon or company was moving as a single unit and triggered an In Sight test then the result would apply to the whole unit so that, for example, a whole company might Duck Back?
Ed said: No, just the squad as it is the smallest unit. They band together into platoons and companies so they can act at the same time under one leader.

Every figure in the triggering unit may, but need not, move an additional 2". Presumably, read in conjunction with 4.5.1 SQUAD COHESION, this means that either whole squads or leaders move or no figure moves?

Ed said: Whole squad has the option. Some may, some may not. One good tactic is the lead guy steps out of cover, trigger the In Sight, then the point man spends 2" and ducks back out of sight. Now you know what's out there. Kind of like real life.

Chris said: I definitely agree. That particular aspect of the In Sight test was one of the main things that hooked me when I first tried out Chain Reaction, a few years ago. It's simple but it's ingeniously realistic. Nevertheless, if the point guy steps out and you decide that he stays there then the Squad Cohesion rule means that the rest must follow.

In Sight test winners.

Assuming that the result of the In Sight test applies to the unit as a whole does this mean that figures in the unit that have no LOS to an enemy Duck Back, whereas those that do either Fire or Charge. If so, that will split the unit. It seems that 6.3.4 RESOLVING IN SIGHT ACTIONS implies that is what will happen.

Ed said: No Duck Back as nothing caused it to happen. Duck Back is a Reaction, moving into cover is an action.

Chris said: That's not the way I read 6.3.4 RESOLVING IN SIGHT ACTIONS, which reads as follows.

The figures winning the In Sight will now act. Here’s how we do it:
 Those that can, will Fire.
 Those that cannot fire will Charge into Melee if within 6”.
 This that cannot fire or Charge into Melee will Duck Back.


So, using the example in the rules, if the black figures had won the In Sight test, it seems that the three that don't have LOS would have been forced to Duck Back. Or maybe not, in that case, as they only lack LOS because they're already in cover.


Figures belonging to the winning group Fire, Charge or Duck Back as individuals, so multiple engagements are likely to occur. Fire or charge. 

In Sight test losers.

6.4 RECEIVED FIRE & MAN DOWN is clear that a single Reaction Test is taken for the whole unit, based on the worst result inflicted by the attackers, and the result applied to the whole unit, which then reacts as one. Correct. Due to a Reaction.

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

In red.



Ed said: Whole squad has the option. Some may, some may not. One good tactic is the lead guy steps out of cover, trigger the In Sight, then the point man spends 2" and ducks back out of sight. Now you know what's out there. Kind of like real life.



Chris said: I definitely agree. That particular aspect of the In Sight test was one of the main things that hooked me when I first tried out Chain Reaction, a few years ago. It's simple but it's ingeniously realistic. Nevertheless, if the point guy steps out and you decide that he stays there then the Squad Cohesion rule means that the rest must follow. Put them in column. Move the front guy to the edge of the woods, trigger the In Sight. He can stay there but the rest need not advnace as they are in base top base contact.


In Sight test winners.



Assuming that the result of the In Sight test applies to the unit as a whole does this mean that figures in the unit that have no LOS to an enemy Duck Back, whereas those that do either Fire or Charge. If so, that will split the unit. It seems that 6.3.4 RESOLVING IN SIGHT ACTIONS implies that is what will happen.



Ed said: No Duck Back as nothing caused it to happen. Duck Back is a Reaction, moving into cover is an action.



Chris said: That's not the way I read 6.3.4 RESOLVING IN SIGHT ACTIONS, which reads as follows.



The figures winning the In Sight will now act. Here’s how we do it:

 Those that can, will Fire.

 Those that cannot fire will Charge into Melee if within 6”.

 This that cannot fire or Charge into Melee will Duck Back.





So, using the example in the rules, if the black figures had won the In Sight test, it seems that the three that don't have LOS would have been forced to Duck Back. Or maybe not, in that case, as they only lack LOS because they're already in cover. No as they do not have LOS. In sight applies to those figures that actually can see the other side that triggered it. Now you could play it where they all have to as you mention.


Now the best thing about THW is you can tweak the rules to fit your ideas. Just be sure to tell the opposing players when playing head-to-head. That's how THW rules have developed over 25 years. Players had other ideas, and some were adapted. Hope this helps.




Figures belonging to the winning group Fire, Charge or Duck Back as individuals, so multiple engagements are likely to occur. Fire or charge.



In Sight test losers.



6.4 RECEIVED FIRE & MAN DOWN is clear that a single Reaction Test is taken for the whole unit, based on the worst result inflicted by the attackers, and the result applied to the whole unit, which then reacts as one. Correct. Due to a Reaction.