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Post by General Retreat on May 2, 2022 0:13:39 GMT
What does a targeted figure in Duck Back status do when shot at? In all the Firing result boxes, it says, "If can’t return fire will Carry On instead." A Ducked Back figure cannot fire (page 17). So, a Ducked Back figure "can't return fire [and it] will Carry On." But page 22 (under Carry On appropriately) it says "A figure is considered to be carrying on if it is not doing any of the following ... Duck Back...." So it can't carry on!
I've got a whole German NP squad in Duck Back status and my figures are shooting at them. Only a 10 or better is an unambiguous Hit. If a Ducked Back figure is supposed to Duck Back again (though the rules don't say that), it seems like I'll never catch 'em.
But I noticed under "RESOLVING IN SIGHT ACTIONS" that the action "Fire – includes those that have Ducked Back if they have LOS." So there is a circumstance where a Ducked Back figure can fire. But that's not the situation described above.
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on May 2, 2022 1:29:02 GMT
Duck back cannot return fire at the guy that caused the Duck Back.
When active needs to recover to get back into position to fire.
If someone comes around a corner or into a building and triggers and In Sight, it behaves normally. It still must wait until active to recover.
I've got a whole German NP squad in Duck Back status and my figures are shooting at them. Can't do that as they are ducked back out of sight.
Example - Turn 1 - Germans activate and fire at Brits. Brits duck back in cover, OUT of SIGHT of the Germans. Brits had already activated so turn over.
Turn 2 - Activation dice are rolled and Germans win. They cannot see the Brits so move around the wall and now can see the Brits. Triggers an In Sight. Germans Duck Back. Brits are still in Duck Back mode. They now activate and recover, pop up and are good to go. Let's say they see someone. That triggers an In Sight test.
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Post by General Retreat on May 2, 2022 14:47:47 GMT
In your example for Turn 2, the "Germans Duck Back." Why?
Maybe I should describe the whole turn (thus far): NP won the In Sight and fired away. Only 2 of my figures Ducked Back. The others put one NP figure Out of the Fight and forced the others to Duck Back. End of NP activation and beginning of mine. My 2 Ducked Back figures recovered and everyone moved, bringing the NP figures back into sight.
At this point I'm seeing that I should have performed an In Sight test. If the NP side won, it's stated even its Ducked Back figures would fire (top of p. 20). If they scored Return Fires by (at least some of) my figures, what are the NP figures supposed to do? Are they able to return fire even though Ducked Back?
If my side won the In Sight, I'm back to the same situation: NP Figures are Ducked Back and not able to Return Fire, so they Carry On(?).
(There were some Outgunned situations but these don't change the situation.)
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on May 2, 2022 16:20:33 GMT
In your example for Turn 2, the "Germans Duck Back." Why? They were shot at, just didn't mention it. Jumped ahead.
Maybe I should describe the whole turn (thus far): Perfect. NP won the In Sight and fired away. Only 2 of my figures Ducked Back. The others put one NP figure Out of the Fight and forced the others to Duck Back. End of NP activation and beginning of mine. My 2 Ducked Back figures recovered and everyone moved, bringing the NP figures back into sight. Got it. So they moved past the cover so they could see the Germans.
At this point I'm seeing that I should have performed an In Sight test. Correct. If the NP side won, it's stated even its Ducked Back figures would fire (top of p. 20). Correct as they are no longer out of sight. Duck Back means you can't be seen because something is blocking the line of sight. It's not a mental thing like running away. If someone moves to a position where they can now see them...an In Sight is triggered. Duck Back is a physical thing. Something in between the figures blocking the line of sight. If they scored Return Fires by (at least some of) my figures, what are the NP figures supposed to do? Are they able to return fire even though Ducked Back? Yes, if they can see them, they are no longer Ducked Back.
If my side won the In Sight, I'm back to the same situation: NP Figures are Ducked Back and not able to Return Fire, Yes they can as they can see the enemy. so they Carry On(?). Sure, once they are in an In Sight they carry on because they can see and be seen. In Duck Back they can't because the LOS is blocked. If you can see them it triggers an in sight and they can fire because they can see you. Again, it's not a state of mind, it's a physical object preventing the line of sight.
(There were some Outgunned situations but these don't change the situation.) Right. Hope this helps.
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Post by General Retreat on May 2, 2022 21:13:22 GMT
Thanks for explaining. I guess I understand now.
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on May 2, 2022 22:54:38 GMT
Thanks for explaining. I guess I understand now. No worries and be sure to ask questions as they come up. That's what I'm here for. Take care, Ed
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Post by phinster on May 3, 2022 15:50:17 GMT
So Duck back figures cannot activate to shoot, they must first recover. Figures in Duck Back can still react to any situation, Duck Back does not prevent reactions.
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on May 3, 2022 16:24:49 GMT
So Duck back figures cannot activate to shoot, they must first recover. Figures in Duck Back can still react to any situation, Duck Back does not prevent reactions. Correct. Very well put, thanks.
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