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Post by tonicnh on Mar 7, 2021 17:36:34 GMT
Hi All Been away from the boards for a while (ongoing major house renovations have meant that i've nowhere to game or paint and haven't had much free time to keep up with things here) However the end is in sight and I'm thinking of playing some games using Ground Zero Games vacc suited figures, in particular their Moongrunt range shop.groundzerogames.co.uk/15mm-stargrunt/infantry/moongrunt.html for some near future lunar action I haven't been able to find any rules about Hostile environments (vacuum, corrosive atmospheres etc) so I thought I'd have a go at making some up. Here are a few (unplaytested) ideas which I reckon could work for the various editions of 5150 (I've currently got the Original, Star Army and Platoon Leader - but not Citizen Soldier so I dont know if the following would work for that)- As always comments, constructive criticism and suggestions are welcome and encouraged I'm assuming that if human forces intend to fight outside pressurized vehicles or spacecraft in locations with lethal or no atmosphere, troops must wear protective environment suits. (Aliens/Robots/cyborgs/ whatever may be a different kettle of fish so I'll leave them out for now). Likewise i'd guess that fighting in such suits is likely to need extensive training. (wearing a suit is one thing, fighting in it is another) and that combat is likely to be lethal as even the smallest breach of an environment suit’s integrity could be fatal. here we go.... You might want to consider it unusual for troops with a Rep of less than 4 to be deployed in such environments (due to the need for training mentioned above) Option 1
Assume everyone is wearing BTA armour (as its a self-contained environment not subject to gas attacks or lack of oxygen) simple - but doesnt allow for much variety in armour types
Option 2
Apply some sort of modifier to the impact of weapons on the damage tables (BTA rules remain unchanged) another easy option - you may have your own views on what that modifier /modifiers should be might depending on which edition of the rules you use and a simple modifier might lack a bit of "flavour"
Option 3
During combat in a hostile environment, any hit on a figure in an environment suit must make a Roll vs REP prior to rolling on the relevant Damage Table (Ignore if wearing BTA). If the figure passes the Initial Roll vs REP, make the Damage Table roll as usual. If it fails the Initial roll vs REP, the figure has succumbed to the hostile environment and is dead. added complication and might prove too lethal in game terms - particularly for lower REP figures
Option 4
During combat in a hostile environment, any hit on a figure in an environment suit must roll 2D6 vs REP on the Hostile Environment Suit Table before rolling on the relevant Damage Table.(Ignore if wearing BTA) Hostile Environment Suit Table
2d6 Vs Rep| Pass 2D6 | No additional effects – proceed to damage table | | Pass 1D6 | Proceed to damage table
- if OOF no additional effects.
- if knocked down or duck back spend an additional activation repairing suit damage
| | Pass 0D6 | The figure has succumbed to the hostile environment and is dead |
Troops are used to the gravities of their homeworlds and face problems when operating in gravities lower or higher than that which they are accustomed to. Troops who are operating in gravities other than their own must make a Roll Vs REP each time they attempt to Fast Move. If they succeed, they may make a Fast Move. If they fail, they may only make a Normal move. Troops in vehicles or powered armor are not affected by strange gravities. If you've made it this far - thanks! |
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Post by squidlord on Mar 7, 2021 18:15:49 GMT
I haven't been able to find any rules about Hostile environments (vacuum, corrosive atmospheres etc) so I thought I'd have a go at making some up. Here are a few (unplaytested) ideas which I reckon could work for the various editions of 5150 (I've currently got the Original, Star Army and Platoon Leader - but not Citizen Soldier so I dont know if the following would work for that)- As always comments, constructive criticism and suggestions are welcome and encouraged I'm assuming that if human forces intend to fight outside pressurized vehicles or spacecraft in locations with lethal or no atmosphere, troops must wear protective environment suits. (Aliens/Robots/cyborgs/ whatever may be a different kettle of fish so I'll leave them out for now). Likewise i'd guess that fighting in such suits is likely to need extensive training. (wearing a suit is one thing, fighting in it is another) and that combat is likely to be lethal as even the smallest breach of an environment suit’s integrity could be fatal. I think I'll use this point to sort of leverage into a general criticism of the idea – not the execution, because given your premise, many of these flow logically. But ultimately – if the environment is so hostile and the suits that infantry wear are so fragile that even the slightest glancing blow is likely to end in their immediate death, you won't find infantry in that environment. No sensible being would be outside of a vehicle-class life-support system. It might be some sort of tank, or a flyer, or have your battle armor – but survivability that doesn't immediately kill the infantryman is a prime component of putting infantry anywhere. There are some ways to do that, of course. You can presume that the technology of the infantry suit means that it automatically seals itself on a modular basis in order to protect the infantryman's torso and head. Mechanically this might be reflected in a lower threshold for OOF results but without increasing OD results. Extremely hostile environments are a great excuse to go with a vehicle-focused force and letting the effects of that trickle down into gameplay. If you want to retain the idea that infantry is extremely squishy but still want to bring infantry into play, a greater focus on armored transports which insert infantry into buildings and features which themselves act as resistance against the environment and allow play-as-normal is certainly a good option. A group of Marines holding on for dear life as they wait for their drop pod to touchdown next to the facility they need to secure and needing to make a short but dangerous dash across territory where any attack could be lethal definitely provides a sense of drama. I'm a great proponent of asking a really simple question when proposing new game mechanics, not just to other people but to myself: "sure, it's cool, but does it make the game better?" To me, "better" generally involves adding more flexibility and not reducing variance, at least without introducing more opportunities in the process. Making things more lethal without actually providing more interesting things you can do as a result never really struck me as a good move. It might be more effective to go through and list a number of types of hostile environment, assume that 95% of the normal mechanics apply (because the technology, in some way, counters the additional threat), but the environment itself enables using some additional options that change the experience. - For example, low gravity environments – yes, you might need to make a Rep check to not go falling down when you Fast Move, but you also can Fast Move with a 2X multiplier. If you move further than 8 inches, you're also assumed to be higher than a single story and trigger In Sight Tests from elements whose line of sight was only blocked by a single floor obstacle.
- In heavy gravity environments, Fast Moves might be cut in half across the board and projectile-based weaponry gets limited to a maximum range of 24 inches. On the other hand, because of the servo assistance necessary to even move around in the environment, melee attacks are particularly damaging and receive a +2 to damage tests.
- Heavily corrosive atmospheres? Visibility is horrible; treat it as day for night when it comes to range during the day and half that at night. Vehicles have a particularly bad time and treat any Tests for damage or malfunction with a -1 malus. On the upside (depending on which end you're standing on), any kind of explosive/shrapnel damage erodes coatings which normally resist corrosion, giving them a +1 on damage tests.
And so on, and so on. If you define things like this, you provide the opportunity for players to get creative, to get Intel and make decisions about how they want to respond to the problem. Maybe you absolutely want to take a heavy infantry force to the corrosive planet because you know your tanks and aircraft are going to break down more often, and you choose the platoon grenade launcher teams or rocket launcher teams as organic support, because those are guaranteed to do more damage. On a heavy gravity planet, you know your enemy is going to be as hampered as you are when it comes to mobility, so maybe you decide to focus on heavy tanks which are already slow but don't lose a whole lot in that environment. Maybe you change the strategy up and take your high-speed, lightweight skirmish forces, gambling that you can outmaneuver your enemy and leverage the flanks in ways they won't be able to. More decisions, more flexibility, more options. Those of the sorts of things that I think are really important when you start thinking about ways to add mechanics to differentiate different environments. |
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Post by brian on Mar 8, 2021 18:11:31 GMT
I enjoyed reading through both posts. I can’t add much except that I think 5150 Star Marine has rules for combat in hostile environments and I *think* there are some rules for operating in low/high grav environments...just another option. THW rules are easy to tweak to suit your needs though so go with your gut! Sometimes the fun part is coming up with your own variations and testing them.
Brian
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Post by BROODE on Mar 8, 2021 21:41:02 GMT
I enjoyed reading through both posts. I can’t add much except that I think 5150 Star Marine has rules for combat in hostile environments and I *think* there are some rules for operating in low/high grav environments...just another option. THW rules are easy to tweak to suit your needs though so go with your gut! Sometimes the fun part is coming up with your own variations and testing them. Brian Some page #'s in 5150: Star Marine covering environmental rules: Damage in Vacuum & Hostile Atmospheres - page 26
Zero-G Movement - page 57
Crossing Obstacles in Normal, Low, and Heavy Gravity - page 57
Free Falling - page 57
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Post by karl on Mar 8, 2021 21:49:54 GMT
I have been mulling the idea of doing a zero-G game for a convention by using minis with magnetized bases on a spaceship model covered in sheet-metal. The minis could stand anywhere, on the walls, hanging from cabin roofs etc.
Not even sure if that would actually be playable ;-)
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Post by squidlord on Mar 8, 2021 22:02:51 GMT
I have been mulling the idea of doing a zero-G game for a convention by using minis with magnetized bases on a spaceship model covered in sheet-metal. The minis could stand anywhere, on the walls, hanging from cabin roofs etc. Not even sure if that would actually be playable ;-) I'm not sure why it wouldn't be. I know I have seen something similar done at a convention before. Nothing in the 5150 mechanics say anything about orientation and line of sight is still an obvious mechanism even in such an environment. Throw in a couple of flight stands so that infantry could push often float from side to side and I think you could have something that really caught people's eyes on the table. |
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Post by karl on Mar 9, 2021 11:56:49 GMT
THe flight stand is a neat idea. I will have to remember that.
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Post by brian on Mar 9, 2021 16:03:13 GMT
I enjoyed reading through both posts. I can’t add much except that I think 5150 Star Marine has rules for combat in hostile environments and I *think* there are some rules for operating in low/high grav environments...just another option. THW rules are easy to tweak to suit your needs though so go with your gut! Sometimes the fun part is coming up with your own variations and testing them. Brian Some page #'s in 5150: Star Marine covering environmental rules: Damage in Vacuum & Hostile Atmospheres - page 26
Zero-G Movement - page 57
Crossing Obstacles in Normal, Low, and Heavy Gravity - page 57
Free Falling - page 57
Ah ha! Thank you sir! Brian |
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Post by easyeight on Mar 9, 2021 22:26:57 GMT
5150 Star Marine started out as a Star Army/Star Platoon supplement and grew into it own 5150 TTRPG/skirmish game. The release version has rules for hostile environment combat, enough for most situations but not so detailed as to bog down play. The initial drafts had more detailed rules, attached. 5150 Star Marine - initial draft ZeroG rules.docx (72.19 KB) |
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Post by tonicnh on Mar 10, 2021 17:57:16 GMT
That's what I love about the THW community - you go away for a couple of days and get a whole host of interesting material to consider!
Even better - as a result of a trawl through my pdf library based on the above posts I've just discovered that I'd purchased (and duly forgotten about) a copy of 5150 Star Marine!
Based on a prelminary readthrough 5150 SM seems to tick all the boxes I wanted to cover and in a more elegant manner than my own clunky attempts - thanks especially to Easyeight for kindly providing a link to the initial drafts -now downloaded and in the reading queue
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Post by BROODE on Mar 13, 2021 3:22:52 GMT
Some page #'s in 5150: Star Marine covering environmental rules: Damage in Vacuum & Hostile Atmospheres - page 26
Zero-G Movement - page 57
Crossing Obstacles in Normal, Low, and Heavy Gravity - page 57
Free Falling - page 57
Ah ha! Thank you sir! Brian You are welcome  |
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Post by easyeight on Mar 17, 2021 18:23:41 GMT
That's what I love about the THW community - you go away for a couple of days and get a whole host of interesting material to consider! Even better - as a result of a trawl through my pdf library based on the above posts I've just discovered that I'd purchased (and duly forgotten about) a copy of 5150 Star Marine! Based on a prelminary readthrough 5150 SM seems to tick all the boxes I wanted to cover and in a more elegant manner than my own clunky attempts - thanks especially to Easyeight for kindly providing a link to the initial drafts -now downloaded and in the reading queue You're welcome. In that first draft I had even struggled through a line of sight calculation based upon the diameter of an asteroid or moon, or wheel space station -- Ed kindly suggested that was overkill for 99% of the gamers out there... |
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