5150 Star Army 2nd Tour rules question

[danyboy]

Hi,
I'm not a wargaming newbie, actually I'v have most of the mainstream and less known game systems but please help me here.
I've recently bought 5150 Star Army 2nd Tour rulebook and have some issues with rules. 

1. How does movement look like. I mean it's per model, since once one model enters LoS of enemy rest of the squad can move only 2"? So let's say Sgt. Kowalsky moves 6", triggers InSight test, rest of his squad can't help him, because after moving 2" they are still out of sight... ? Then let's say Kowalski survived fire from enemy Squad - now we move Sqd. Smith his move 6" he enter LoS of the same enemy squad - another InSight test, another round of fire exchange? 
Well I know I'm not getting something but I can't figure what. 

2. I found in example and in previous edition rulebook that you can continue move after InSight has been resolved. Right or not? How many inchces I can go? What happens if one squaddie enters LoS of previously triggered enemy? Another test?

3. What happens if my squad starts turn (Activates) while being already in LoS? They can move freely without causing InSight test of enemy (they don't react until fired upon)?

I read rules, I like what I see, but I have issues with resolving turn of 3 models vs 3 models, can't imagine Platoon vs Platoon...

Regards
Dany

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

No worries, here to help. Pasted answers directly into message.

May 16, 2020 16:33:29 GMT danyboy said:

Hi,
I'm not a wargaming newbie, actually I'v have most of the mainstream and less known game systems but please help me here.
I've recently bought 5150 Star Army 2nd Tour rulebook and have some issues with rules. 

1. How does movement look like. I mean it's per model, since once one model enters LoS of enemy rest of the squad can move only 2"? So let's say Sgt. Kowalsky moves 6", triggers InSight test, rest of his squad can't help him, because after moving 2" they are still out of sight... ? Yes. But don't string them out like that. All should be withing 1" or less of each other. Never put them in a long line with one guy in front and the rest lined up behind him. 

Then let's say Kowalski survived fire from enemy Squad - now we move Sqd. Smith his move 6" he enter LoS of the same enemy squad - another InSight test, another round of fire exchange?  Yep, if all enemy were out of sight after the first fight and he moved into another LOS it happens again. Think real life. You come around a corner and see someone, you guys fire, he goes down. You move to the next corner and same thing happens. The key is have your guys close. Kind of like page 11 so if one guy steps out at least two other guys are within 2" of him to help out. OR, he can just duck back out of sight. The 2" can be backwards as well as in, I step out and  see three guys and say crap and duck back out of sight,.


Well I know I'm not getting something but I can't figure what. No worries, THW is more like real life than the IGOUGO rules where I move into your sight but you can't do anything about it cuz it's not your turn. Insreaad I step out, we BOTH react and maybe I fire first or you fire first or I duck back out of sight.

2. I found in example and in previous edition rulebook that you can continue move after InSight has been resolved. Right or not? Correct, just subtract the disatance you already moved. So I have an 8" move, I move 2", fight, and can move 6" more, unless I try and Fast Move then can go up to 14" more as 16" is the normal Fast Move.  How many inchces I can go? What happens if one squaddie enters LoS of previously triggered enemy? Another test? Could happen but only if you lost when you entered sight and lost.
 
3. What happens if my squad starts turn (Activates) while being already in LoS? They can move freely without causing InSight test of enemy (they don't react until fired upon)? Yes and that almost never happens. Here's how it could.
1 -  A and B are active. They step into sight of 1 and 2
2 -  A fires at 1 and kills him.
3 - B fires at 2 misses and 2 fires back and kills B.
4 - A and 12 have won, in sight is over.
5 - A can now active fire - Page 12.

I read rules, I like what I see, but I have issues with resolving turn of 3 models vs 3 models, can't imagine Platoon vs Platoon... Once you get used toit you can work your way up. Hope this helps
Ed

Regards
Dany

[danyboy]

Thanks for reply Ed!

Some additional questions:
1. If Active unit LOST InSight Test can enemy (according to table): Shot, Charge, or Move - how far can it Move and how does it relate to distance which unit already moved (wants to move) that turn?
2. What do Charging Bugs (or actually anyone) do if shooter has 3-7 (2nd time on Ranged Combat table in reaction from Charge into Melee table)? Do they continue charge or do they Duck Back (also - they don't shoot back during theirs charge move right)?
3. Does Charging figure trigger InSight test if it enters LoS to rest of figures of charged unit?
4. About figure movement. I take one figure (let's call it Bob) and move that one figure 8", rest stays 8" away - I want to move them next - but that one tiggered InSight test. So rest stays (actually can move 2"). So Bob lost InSight Test. He survives - Ducks Back. I take another figure (Jay) he does the same, another InSight test, and so on.
So I guess the idea is that in one turn I should move all my figures one by one, but finish my move at the edge of LoS of enemy, and in the NEXT TURN move them all 2" into LoS, so they all could fire/react at the same time? Tactical Movement, not running with rifles, right?
5. Do Bugs movement/reaction (NPC) works the same?
6. What if only Andy the Warrior Bug being part of sixpack group triggers InSight test, does he Charge alone leaving his group?
7. What does it mean that "Warrior Bugs take Reaction test by the group"?

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

May 17, 2020 13:59:08 GMT danyboy said:

Thanks for reply Ed! No problem.



Some additional questions:
1. If Active unit LOST InSight Test can enemy (according to table): Shot, Charge, or Move - how far can it Move and how does it relate to distance which unit already moved (wants to move) that turn? Actions taken form 1st to last, not a choice. So they would shoot first. They would need to be out of range of the enemy and couldn't reach them on a charge, to ,ove and that would be out of sight.
2. What do Charging Bugs (or actually anyone) do if shooter has 3-7 (2nd time on Ranged Combat table in reaction from Charge into Melee table)? Do they continue charge or do they Duck Back (also - they don't shoot back during theirs charge move right)? If you don't hit the charger they continue into melee.
3. Does Charging figure trigger InSight test if it enters LoS to rest of figures of charged unit? Yep, but that's not going to happen much if ever.
4. About figure movement. I take one figure (let's call it Bob) and move that one figure 8", rest stays 8" away - I want to move them next - but that one tiggered InSight test. So rest stays (actually can move 2"). So Bob lost InSight Test. He survives - Ducks Back. I take another figure (Jay) he does the same, another InSight test, and so on. Yep, but why would you ever do that? Stay together. Don't worry about what if questions as 95% of them won't happen. You'll see. 
So I guess the idea is that in one turn I should move all my figures one by one, but finish my move at the edge of LoS of enemy, and in the NEXT TURN move them all 2" into LoS, so they all could fire/react at the same time? Tactical Movement, not running with rifles, right? Keep them together so when one figure triggers an In Sight at least two more can get involved. Or, if outnumbered. use the 2" to duck back out of sight. 
5. Do Bugs movement/reaction (NPC) works the same? Yes, just be sure to read the table as they can act differently. 
6. What if only Andy the Warrior Bug being part of sixpack group triggers InSight test, does he Charge alone leaving his group? Yep. Again hypothetical and not going to happen. What happens in Bugs pop out of a hole and they all see and all charge.
7. What does it mean that "Warrior Bugs take Reaction test by the group"? Roll one set of dice and all, the BUGs act on it. Bugs don't roll individually but non-Bugs do. Page 13.
Hope this helps.

[stryderg]

May 16, 2020 16:33:29 GMT danyboy said:

1. How does movement look like. I mean it's per model,

I don't think that's the right way to look at it.

I've always played that movement is by active group.  If you've got a squad of three guys, that are moving down an alley, move all 3 of them to the corner of the building (call that a 5 inch move).  Now they are stacked up at the corner and all still have 3 inches of movement left.  So you've got a choice:  Move one guy out, trigger an In-Sight and then decide if he's going to move back behind the corner, or move the other guys up to 2 inches into the open.  Now roll for In-Sight and see who survives.

[danyboy]

May 18, 2020 0:14:52 GMT stryderg said:

May 16, 2020 16:33:29 GMT danyboy said:

1. How does movement look like. I mean it's per model,

I don't think that's the right way to look at it.

I've always played that movement is by active group.  If you've got a squad of three guys, that are moving down an alley, move all 3 of them to the corner of the building (call that a 5 inch move).  Now they are stacked up at the corner and all still have 3 inches of movement left.  So you've got a choice:  Move one guy out, trigger an In-Sight and then decide if he's going to move back behind the corner, or move the other guys up to 2 inches into the open.  Now roll for In-Sight and see who survives.

Yes I guess that's it, I know I don't understand this game at basic lavel  Also what Ed i keep tellin me:

Keep them together so when one figure triggers an In Sight at least two more can get involved. Or, if outnumbered. use the 2" to duck back out of sight.


In IGOUGO games there is clearly stated. Pick one figure from a Unit, move it desired distance. Once moved you can't move it that movement round. Pick another figure from that unit, move it desired distnace (keep coherency with first moved), and so on. After each figure has been moved we move to shoting. And so on.

So when I read this game, I try do similar. I pick ONE figure from a Unit. Move it 8" and... whops it triggers InSight test. So he is alone, 8" from their buddies...

What you telling me is I can pick up figure #1, move it 4" then pick up figure #2, move it 4", and so on with entire squad. AND THEN in the same activation  - I can go back to #1 move it again (as I have 4" of 8" left) around the corner,  trigger InSight, and move rest of his squad allowed 2" - THAT changes a lot!

THANKS!

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

May 18, 2020 0:14:52 GMT stryderg said:

May 16, 2020 16:33:29 GMT danyboy said:

1. How does movement look like. I mean it's per model,

I don't think that's the right way to look at it.

I've always played that movement is by active group.  If you've got a squad of three guys, that are moving down an alley, move all 3 of them to the corner of the building (call that a 5 inch move).  Now they are stacked up at the corner and all still have 3 inches of movement left.  So you've got a choice:  Move one guy out, trigger an In-Sight and then decide if he's going to move back behind the corner, or move the other guys up to 2 inches into the open.  Now roll for In-Sight and see who survives.

That's a Rep 5 player. Yep, best way to do it. 

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

May 18, 2020 7:41:01 GMT danyboy said:

May 18, 2020 0:14:52 GMT stryderg said:

In IGOUGO games there is clearly stated. Pick one figure from a Unit, move it desired distance. Once moved you can't move it that movement round. Pick another figure from that unit, move it desired distnace (keep coherency with first moved), and so on. After each figure has been moved we move to shoting. And so on.

So when I read this game, I try do similar. I pick ONE figure from a Unit. Move it 8" and... whops it triggers InSight test. So he is alone, 8" from their buddies...

What you telling me is I can pick up figure #1, move it 4" then pick up figure #2, move it 4", and so on with entire squad. AND THEN in the same activation  - I can go back to #1 move it again (as I have 4" of 8" left) around the corner,  trigger InSight, and move rest of his squad allowed 2" - THAT changes a lot!

THANKS!

Yep, THW is  a bit different and realistic. Groups of people move at the same time, or wait for the group to bunch up,before stepping out into sight. Glad you asked questions. 

[stryderg]

Yep.
These rules are different from most other IGOUGO games. And folks that have wargaming for a while tend to have the hardest time learning them. But when that light bulb goes off in your head, it opens up a whole new world.
Welcome to the dark side!

The way I move squads is based on my intent: do I want to send one guy out as a point man to resolve a PEF, wait for it to be resolved and then decide what I want to do with the rest of my squad, or do I want to move the whole squad somewhere and potentially resolve a PEF in the process. You've got options.

[stryderg]

Oh, Hey Ed. Looks like you were answering while I was typing.

[Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy]

Yep, looks like it. Glad we had the same answer!

[danyboy]

Thank you again, that solves my issue.

I have another one  Here goes.
In rules and examples there is explaned what happens when enemy wins InSight and what it is forced to do.
My question is what if Active unit wins InSight? Do they have to do what InSight table says (Shoot > Charge > Move) or do they carry on what they were supposed to do (ie Move to other side of the road leaving LoS to that enemy) and enemy won't react at all?


Here's an often overlooked rule.
GRUNTS

These figures do not represent a player. They may be friends

or foes and will come and go as the game progresses. Grunts

are controlled by the game mechanics.


So Grunts, even yours follow the In Sight in order:
Shoot. 
Charge.
Move.
You're a Star so can do what yo want but Grunts, follow the process.

If they have to Shoot (as In Sight winner) is that theirs Active Fire?  Nope, active fire is different so let's say three of them react and fire. When they are active, if you are still in sight they fire and no In Sight is needed. Once figures are In Sight they fire until one side disappears, even if it's over multiple activations.

[danyboy]

Thank you! That's really clear things up for me. Also I must say - what a brilliant and refreshing concept

So, this friday two Stars (my friend and I) with their squads of freshly painted 15mm Colonial Marines will go for their first Patrol Mission - oh boy, I wonder if we meet any Aliens there

[stryderg]

If you do, ask them if they're hungry. That always ends well...for someone.

[fenris07]

May 19, 2020 7:41:45 GMT danyboy said:

Thank you! That's really clear things up for me. Also I must say - what a brilliant and refreshing concept

So, this friday two Stars (my friend and I) with their squads of freshly painted 15mm Colonial Marines will go for their first Patrol Mission - oh boy, I wonder if we meet any Aliens there

Let us know how first contact goes!