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Post by General Retreat on Apr 29, 2022 0:35:21 GMT
Shooting on page 101 (and page "9" after that, too) says to "Roll 2d6 versus Rep regardless of the Target (NUTS page 10) of the weapon...." Aside from outgunning, it sounds like it hardly matters whether a soldier fires a bolt action of an MG42. What am I missing?
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on Apr 29, 2022 0:44:55 GMT
Correct. It's assuming that the soldier has been adequately trained in the weapon type to fire it successfully. Same rules apply, still have to designate how many shots on who, the table just replaces the other table and gives the Rep of the shooter much more importance. Give it a whirl.
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Post by jgregory on Apr 29, 2022 9:18:04 GMT
Aside from outgunning, it sounds like it hardly matters whether a soldier fires a bolt action of an MG42. What am I missing? The 2d6 is one roll to hit for all shots, regardless of Target rating (ie RoF), but you still roll the Target value in d6 for Damage if you pass 2d6. So, after passing 2d6, the BA Rifle would hit 1 enemy and roll 1d6 on the Damage Table, but the MG42 would hit six enemies (or one enemy six times) and roll 6d6 on the Damage table. Hope this helps. |
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Post by General Retreat on Apr 29, 2022 15:26:06 GMT
Thanks for the answers. Wow! This makes it an all-or-nothing roll: All shots hit or none hit! 
Now I'm thinking I've misunderstood the original Shooting system.  On page 26 (ver. 4) the Shooting table says "Miss If" Target "Fast Moved ... Charged ... Cover" followed by Bulleted points. Are the Bullets the conditions for the Target's being in Cover? I've been treating them as stand-alone conditions, additional possibilities. I couldn't get a Hit on anything less than a 10. But if the Bullets only "save" a Target behind Cover, then Hits are a little easier (especially for low Reps).
This makes it a tossup for me between which system to use. I'll have to experiment. 
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on Apr 29, 2022 17:33:33 GMT
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Post by General Retreat on Apr 29, 2022 19:47:02 GMT
Under Optional Rules, it seems a Target who is not outgunned (same level or better) gets hit while Outgunned Targets get to Duck Back. I don't see the logic here.
BTW, what is a Bug in the Shooting Result table?
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on Apr 29, 2022 21:13:37 GMT
That was the only option to keep Outgunned working. You can choose to switch it out if you want. See how it works out and go from there.
Bug - You're the first person to catch that. It was left over from the Star Army option rules. I just saw it today myself and it will work with the upcoming Weird War rules that covers all kinds of weird things.
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Post by jgregory on Apr 29, 2022 22:50:44 GMT
Under Optional Rules, it seems a Target who is not outgunned (same level or better) gets hit while Outgunned Targets get to Duck Back. I don't see the logic here.
BTW, what is a Bug in the Shooting Result table? The logic is that when shot at with a bigger, noisier weapon, your enemy doesn't keep his head up long enough to get it shot off  It may seem like you're being deprived of the chance to kill him, but if you miss a Target who's not outgunned, he's going to shoot back. Believe me, it's a wonderful thing to have confidence that your weapon is going suppress him, and not worry about having him take you out if you miss... |
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on Apr 29, 2022 22:55:19 GMT
Under Optional Rules, it seems a Target who is not outgunned (same level or better) gets hit while Outgunned Targets get to Duck Back. I don't see the logic here.
BTW, what is a Bug in the Shooting Result table? The logic is that when shot at with a bigger, noisier weapon, your enemy doesn't keep his head up long enough to get it shot off  It may seem like you're being deprived of the chance to kill him, but if you miss a Target who's not outgunned, he's going to shoot back. Believe me, it's a wonderful thing to have confidence that your weapon is going suppress him, and not worry about having him take you out if you miss... Or, as you can shoot first when active, spray as many targets as you can with the LMG, they duck back, and the other guy in your unit can move and drop a grenade on them over the wall or through the window. See the picture on page 28 for an example. Real life tactics. |
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Post by General Retreat on Apr 30, 2022 17:10:24 GMT
An example: A soldier divides the fire of his semiauto rifle (Rating 2) between two Targets. One with a Bolt Action rifle and another with an MG42. The Optional Shooting table says the outgunned rifle Ducks Back while the better armed MG is Hit and likely out of the fight. Maybe, but I don't think I'd have thought of it that way if asked to devise the rule.
And what is a Bug (in the rules)?
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on Apr 30, 2022 19:24:39 GMT
An example: A soldier divides the fire of his semiauto rifle (Rating 2) between two Targets. One with a Bolt Action rifle and another with an MG42. The Optional Shooting table says the outgunned rifle Ducks Back while the better armed MG is Hit and likely out of the fight. Maybe, but I don't think I'd have thought of it that way if asked to devise the rule.
And what is a Bug (in the rules)? Here's why it works. BA guy is facing a guy that shoots twice as fast. Makes sense to duck back as he is taking twice as many rounds as he can fire. MG42 guy has a higher rate of fire so a SA rifle doesn't faze him, he's not outgunned so stays in sight to shoot. BUT the other guy fired first and hit him. Bugs is a carryover from the Star Army rules, not WW2 applicable - but you can substitute Japanese soldiers on a Banzai attack. It will be used in the upcoming Weird War WW2 book. |
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Post by General Retreat on Apr 30, 2022 22:02:06 GMT
Thanks for Both answers. And here's another: Can a Grenade Launcher fire through a window? For that matter, can a grenade be lobbed by hand through a window?
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on May 1, 2022 0:30:52 GMT
For ease I play yes assuming that the glass has already been shot out or removed by the occupants so they can fire out.
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Post by General Retreat on May 1, 2022 0:53:20 GMT
Well, (NP) soldiers fired out at my guys, so I'm firing in!
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Post by Ed the Two Hour Wargames Guy on May 1, 2022 17:18:51 GMT
Glad you're sticking with it.
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On page 26 (ver. 4) the Shooting table says "Miss If" Target "Fast Moved ... Charged ... Cover" followed by Bulleted points. Are the Bullets the conditions for the Target's being in Cover? I've been treating them as stand-alone conditions, additional possibilities. I couldn't get a Hit on anything less than a 10. But if the Bullets only "save" a Target behind Cover, then Hits are a little easier (especially for low Reps).
On page 26 (ver. 4) the Shooting table says "Miss If" Target "Fast Moved ... Charged ... Cover" followed by Bulleted points. Are the Bullets the conditions for the Target's being in Cover? I've been treating them as stand-alone conditions, additional possibilities. I couldn't get a Hit on anything less than a 10. But if the Bullets only "save" a Target behind Cover, then Hits are a little easier (especially for low Reps). Correct. They only apply o the condition. So if none of the conditions apply, a Hit is scored. Example - Firing at two guys, one's in cover. Scorer an 8, the guy in cover is missed, the guy in the open is hit. Optional rules. Pass 1d6 - Guy in cover is missed, guy in open is hit. Justy go down the list in each box and if the condition applies, use it. If not, then hit. Hope this helps.
